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?

Do you support more government with higher taxes, or less government and less taxes?

Poll closed Jan 31, 2025.
  1. More government and higher taxes

    16.7%
  2. The government we have now.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Less government and less taxes

    83.3%
  1. shootersa

    shootersa Frisky Feline

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    250 years ago our founders created a unique government structure never before tried in the world. It was an experiment. The fundamental guiding principal could best be described as "Government is a necessary evil that must always be restrained".
    Another way might be
    "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely".

    The experiment was a resounding success. America today is arguably the best country in the history of the world, providing it's citizens with a standard of living, opportunities, security, and freedoms no other country can match. In addition we have raised many other countries up to a higher standard than they would have achieved alone, and we have defended countries from tyranny and destruction.

    This is not to say America is perfect. We are both protector and bully to other countries; we experience corruption and evil within our own Federal government and within our own local governments. We see, almost daily, the proof that "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely". We have enemies at the gate who would destroy our country and take what we have created for themselves.

    And we are going deeper and deeper into debt, perhaps already to deeply in debt to ever recover.

    The vision of our founders remains, but has been clouded by louder voices and differing opinions about just how our government should be run. We have lost the focus and the drive that carried America from a weak and uncertain founding to a world leader.

    We need a national discussion about what, exactly, the course of our government should be for the next 250 years. Simply, do we want more government, or less government?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    1. steve_vme
      The word government means this, govern means steer in a direction and the suffix -ment means action. What direction did our Founders want us to take? Take for example John Lock, Hobbs and others and the laws of nature. If we go way way way back in history there is a state of nature where earth and all living this on earth were in perfect condition. This is the direction we were to take.
       
      steve_vme, Jan 6, 2025
    #1
  2. shootersa

    shootersa Frisky Feline

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    Government is, by nature, less efficient and more expensive in most things than private industry. This is simply how government is and it should not be thought of as inherently wrong or even fixable.
    It is what it is.

    An example;
    Social Security was created in 1935 to address the problem of old people ending their work lives with no means of support. Historically, families provided support to it's elders in rural environments where most of the families needs were provided on a farm or ranch. As our culture evolved we moved more to an urban setting and the family structure changed. Elders weren't automatically supported by the family.

    Social Security is funded by a payroll tax, 6.2% paid by the employee, and 6.2% paid by the employer. This money is "managed" by the government during our working lives, and when we retire, the government gives it back to us in a monthly stipend. Neither we nor our employers need do anything but pay the tax. Retirement age is dictated by government, how much we get and even when is also determined by government. We need do nothing but file a request.

    The thing is, if we took that same 12.4% and invested it in mutual funds, stocks, precious metals, whatever, we would have a LOT more money when we retired.
    A LOT MORE.
    In addition, we would decide when we retired, how much we would take from our fund, when we would take it, and for how long.
    With Social Security we are guaranteed an income as long as we live, even if we end up getting back more than we put in. A lifetime income is not an automatic guarantee with a private investment. And finally, with social security, when we die any surplus remains with the government. With a private fund, any surplus becomes part of our estate and through our will we can decide who gets if.

    And that's how government works; less freedom, more expensive.

    Like Shooter said, not an inherently bad thing or something that needs fixing, but it does need watching.
     
    #2
  3. Distant Lover

    Distant Lover Master of Facts

    Joined:
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    I want a well financed public sector of the economy paid for with higher taxes on rich people and corporations. So do most Americans, as I have proven in the past.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
    • wtf wtf x 1
    #3
  4. shootersa

    shootersa Frisky Feline

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    The same old tired plan of the left. Free government shit paid for by the other guy.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    #4
  5. Distant Lover

    Distant Lover Master of Facts

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    That plan has won elections for the Democrats since 1933. The Democrats lose elections on social issues. When class is the issue Democrats win. When race is the issue Democrats lose.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    #5
  6. CS natureboy

    CS natureboy Porn Star

    Joined:
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    Wrong again master of delusion....


    Facts:

    • The 2017 Trump tax cuts lowered tax rates for all Americans.
    • Americans earning under $100,000 received an average tax cut of 16 percent, while the share of taxes paid by the top 1 percent increased.The bottom
    • The bottom 20 percent of earners – those with incomes up to $26,000 – saw their federal tax rate fall to its lowest level in 40 years.
    A family of four making $80,610, the median income in the United States, would see a $1,695 tax increase if the Trump tax cuts expire....
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    #6
  7. Oldrogue

    Oldrogue Porn Star

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    I believe it was Margaret Thatcher that said: the biggest problem with socialism is running out of other peoples money. Its always easy to play the hero when you are spending the money of others never touching your own.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    #7
  8. shootersa

    shootersa Frisky Feline

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    So the question remains;
    What do you want government to do/provide/not do?

    Shooter thinks government should concentrate on security, interstate infrastructure planning, and leave Social Security/Medicare as is.

    Everything else, EVERYTHING should be pushed down to the state/local level.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    #8
  9. Oldrogue

    Oldrogue Porn Star

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    I think government would be a lot closer to the original ideas if they did away with lobbyists and suitcases full of bribe money.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
    #9
  10. luv2be.evil420

    luv2be.evil420 Mighty Evil One

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2020
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    5,140
    The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy

    The first rule in government spending why build one when you can build two at twice the price

    Quote Independence.gif

    What they need to do is bring back the high tax on the super rich, not quite at the 70% level it was when they created the middle class but definitely more than it is now.
     
    #10
  11. Distant Lover

    Distant Lover Master of Facts

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    You did not understand what I posted. The Democrats win when the rich and corporations are taxed heavily to fund programs that benefit working class and middle class people. That policy enabled President Franklin Roosevelt to be reelected three times.
     
    1. mstrman
      Roosevelt's leadership during the Great Depression and World War II played a significant role in his repeated reelections
       
      mstrman, Jan 1, 2025
    #11
  12. CS natureboy

    CS natureboy Porn Star

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    Well then that makes two of us....:thumbsup: Because you are clueless as to what you are posting as well.....:hilarious:
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    #12
  13. Distant Lover

    Distant Lover Master of Facts

    Joined:
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    CS natureboy, what don't you understand about this?

    ------------

    BY JOSH BOAK AND HANNAH FINGERHUT
    Published 7:32 AM PST, March 29, 2023
    WASHINGTON (AP) — In the federal budget standoff, the majority of U.S. adults are asking lawmakers to pull off the impossible: Cut the overall size of government, but also devote more money to the most popular and expensive programs.

    Six in 10 U.S. adults say the government spends too much money. But majorities also favor more funding for infrastructure, health care and Social Security — the kind of commitments that would make efforts to shrink the government unworkable and politically risky ahead of the 2024 elections.

    These findings from a new poll by The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research show just how messy the financial tug-of-war between President Joe Biden and House Republicans could be. At stake is the full faith and credit of the federal government, which could default on its obligations unless there is a deal this summer to raise or suspend the limit on the government’s borrowing authority.

    Poll: Cut federal spending — but not big-ticket programs | AP News

    ------------

    Poll: A Fair Tax System
    This Navigator Research report contains polling data on Americans’ support for raising taxes on the wealthy, perceptions of the positions of Democrats in Congress and Republicans in Congress on taxes, and who Americans trust most to handle cost of living and making the tax system more fair.

    An overwhelming majority of Americans support raising taxes on the wealthy and big corporations across partisanship.

    Four in five Americans support raising taxes on the rich (79 percent), including 94 percent of Democrats, 78 percent of independents, and 63 percent of Republicans. Nearly two in three Americans who say they voted for Donald Trump in 2020 support raising taxes on the wealthy (63 percent), along with over four in five who say they are unfavorable to both Joe Biden and Donald Trump (85 percent). More than seven in ten Americans support raising taxes on the wealthy and big corporations across income levels, from 79 percent making less than $50,000 per year to 72 percent of those living in households earning more than $100,000 per year.

    Americans Support Raising Taxes on the Wealthy and Big Corporations
     
    #13
  14. shootersa

    shootersa Frisky Feline

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    We cannot tax our way out of debt.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    1. phxbi_bear80
      Agreed. but we've done tax cuts for the rich 4 times using the "trickle down theory". and we already know how that goes...time for something new, perhaps supplemented with another program but taxation and the IRS generate 6-7 times return on every dollar spent. That's quite good
       
      phxbi_bear80, Jan 2, 2025
      Distant Lover likes this.
    #14
  15. Distant Lover

    Distant Lover Master of Facts

    Joined:
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    I have proved several times that from 1945 to 1980 high taxes on the rich and corporations cause the national debt as a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP) to decline from 114% to 32%

    U.S. National Debt by Year

    DavidStockman.jpeg DavidStockman.jpg
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2025
    #15
  16. latecomer91364

    latecomer91364 Easily Distracte

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    Discussion? Sure. Discuss all you want, but I will hold that discussion in abeyance until I see what Trump and DOGE will do to tear up our bloated self-serving bureaucracy. We've had too many people feeding at the public trough for far too long.

    One thing we need to do is take the anti-American, lying, treasonous Democrat party and kick them so hard that they can never again wield their evil influence on this great nation.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    #16
  17. Distant Lover

    Distant Lover Master of Facts

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    Tax cuts for the rich caused the debt problem. Tax increases for the rich are the only politically popular way to solve it.
     
    #17
  18. shootersa

    shootersa Frisky Feline

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    We cannot tax our way out of debt.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    #18
  19. latecomer91364

    latecomer91364 Easily Distracte

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    Yappy Dog still yapping out shit he heard online - without knowing anything about the subject.

    Is this new?

    No.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    #19
  20. Distant Lover

    Distant Lover Master of Facts

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    What don't I know about the subject that would cause me to agree with you if I learned?
     
    #20